Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Back to the Premier. Last week, the Minister of Revenue appeared at the estimates committee. On behalf of the Ontario PC caucus, I asked her how much revenue has been collected from the HST on hydro bills. In fact, we had to ask her 25 times, and she still refused to say how much revenue has been collected from the HST on hydro bills. In fact, we had to ask her 25 times, and she still refused to say how much revenue her ministry took in from the HST on hydro bills. It's an important question given that, earlier today, the Premier was asked himself if he would promise not to raise taxes, and he said, "We'll keep doing what we're doing" to Ontario families. How much more money have you taken from Ontario families and seniors for the HST that they pay on hydro bills?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I'll remind the member that the harmonized sales tax is now collected by the federal government. The total amount that's collected in Ontario goes into the national pool. It is then allocated-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): I can see that the honourable member who just asked the question had to put her earpiece in to hear the answer, and it's as a result of the interjections coming from her own side. I would ask that you would be respectful to your own member.

Minister?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: It is then allocated to the provinces based on an econometric formula that's developed in consultation with the provinces. The monies are then remitted on a weekly basis.

One of the interesting aspects now that we've harmonized not only the tax but the collection of the tax is that we're saving Ontarians half a billion dollars a year in collection costs, and that builds on our decision a number of years ago to harmonize the collection of corporate taxes, which saves everybody a lot of money.

It's the right policy. It's a good policy. She may want to ask the federal government if they can break out that number for her.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Only the finance minister of Ontario would have the audacity to come to this House and say that adding 8% to 17% more of the items in Ontario is a tax decrease.

He has had a week to release details of what they say it will cost to end their sweetheart Samsung deal. Your energy minister had an entire weekend, with advisors, to come up with the numbers, but nothing. With the revenue minister, it's even worse. The first time we asked her how much HST Ontario families paid on hydro bills was two weeks ago. We asked her 25 times. Ontario families are feeling the squeeze. They're struggling to pay the hydro bills that are struggling. You've had two weeks to come up with an answer to their question and our question.

Why don't you want Ontario families to know how much money for the HST you are taking out of their pockets and putting into yours?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I am very glad that we are cutting personal taxes by $11 billion for all Ontarians. I'm very delighted.

I just want to share some quotes with my colleague opposite. Now, this is a direct quote from March 27, 2009. It says, "I'm quite encouraged by the fact that the government of Ontario decided to harmonize the PST with the GST.... This is jobs, this is investment, this is good economic policy." Who said that? The Honourable Jim Flaherty, Minister of Finance for Canada.

The member for the opposition may not want to say what they're going to do, other than she accused Ottawa businesses of fear mongering because they dared to speak up against a Tory policy. That kind of intimidation doesn't work here-

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I have some quotes of my own. I'm happy.

Jim Garchinski of the public sector retiree union says, "We're all vehemently opposed to this HST by a government that is about to unilaterally force" a "massive tax grab on citizens"-he called it legalized theft.

Internal modeling done back when gas was a buck a litre shows that Premier McGuinty knew that an 8% HST on energy would bring in almost $1.6 billion in revenue. Ontario families simply want to know how much of that in HST you have collected off their hydro bills.

We asked the minister who collects the tax 25 separate times. You, instead, got her to read a letter to the editor that was published in community newspapers on the record, but still she refused to reveal how much more Ontario families are forced to pay.

We want you to respect Ontario families. Why won't you respect Ontario families who are paying the bills?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: The HST is 8% on gas and hydro, and we gave, on hydro, a 10% rebate which that member and her party voted against.

Let me share a couple of other quotes with the member opposite. Here's another quote: "We understand that the whole"-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister.

 (Hon. Mr. Duncan)

 ... Let me share a couple of other quotes with the member opposite, and here's another quote: "We understand"-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Minister.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Member from Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Member from Halton.

Minister?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: Another quote: "We understand that the whole tax policy is switching to consumption-based taxing as opposed to income-based taxing ... We see the input tax credit, as has been described by Jack Mintz and others, as probably the right sort of policy." Who said that? John O'Toole, PC MPP for Durham, in standing committees.

You know what? They're here one day, there the next day. Their federal brethren support it. Your own colleague supports it. You don't get it. You know what? You accused Ottawa businesses of fear mongering. You can't intimidate them and you can't intimidate us. We'll stand up for Ontario families and you'll be given a very clear-

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you. New question.