Hon. Dwight Duncan: No. We said very clearly in the budget what we are doing on pages 34, 35, 36 and 37. I'd invite the member to read that.

We believe that socially responsible pricing is important, as did the member's party opposite when they raised it three times. It's clear, it's unequivocal and it's the right public policy to pursue in Ontario. It remains revenue-neutral to the government of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: We know for a fact that this HST is not revenue-neutral; it's a $3-billion tax grab that hurts seniors and small businesses the most.

But I think what's most confusing about all of this is that they are confusing businesses and consumers based on Dalton McGuinty's comments just yesterday. He's telling them to lower prices when he refuses to do so with the businesses that he runs. Those working with the LCBO say that based on the Premier's HST sales pitch, consumers "should be expecting a reduction" in prices. That is not forthcoming.

Why is the Premier trying to make families believe that the HST will lead to lower prices when this greedy $3-billion tax grab will not?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I'd invite the member to read the budget and see what we said about the pricing of alcohol in the spring and fall of 2009.

I would refer the member to the Conference Board of Canada, the C.D. Howe Institute and a range of independent organizations that have all said conclusively that the HST will result in lower prices on many goods and services. This is the right policy. Just today, KPMG is out with a report saying that Canada's competitive tax position in the world has now moved from third to second as a result of this government's policies.

It's the appropriate policy. I know the member wants to stick to the old ways and that shifty Tory way of saying one thing and not doing another. Accordingly, this is the right policy for Ontario's future.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Stop the clock. The finance minister used that term once, and the second time, on reflection, I don't think it is parliamentary. I would ask him to withdraw that comment.

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I'll withdraw it.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Thank you.

Final supplementary?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: This Acting Premier, the real Premier and his revenue minister can continue to cite all the third party reports they want, but their own actions show that the prices will not come down after the HST is implemented. They know the truth. They should tell this chamber the truth.

Industry insiders say the McGuinty Liberals want to "preserve government revenue ... it's not about social responsibility; it's all about revenue." The HST is a greedy tax grab after all.

My final question: Why won't you give Ontario families another cleansing moment of truth and just admit that this is going to be a $3-billion tax grab that seniors, small businesses and middle-class families are going to be hosed by?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: I take the word of the C.D. Howe Institute. I take the word of a whole group of individuals who actually put their name on what they're saying, not some anonymous industry source.

If that member and her party are so interested in lowering prices, why won't they support us on lowering drug prices, instead of standing up for the big drug interests in Ontario?

This tax package is right for Ontario's future. It is right for the future of this country. That's why that member's federal party supports this. It is right for the people of Ontario. It will create jobs, raise incomes and raise capital investment. It's the right thing to do for a better future for Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): There are a number of members who want to participate and it would be much more helpful to the Speaker if they were participating from their own seats.